Hey Boy Scouts, I Have Your Survey Right Here

So, today I received an online survey from the Boy Scouts of America. They want to know what I think, as the parent of a scout, of changing their policy on homosexual membership.

The problem is that they didn’t let me fully answer the questions. I was merely allowed to rank things on a numerical scale from “Totally Unacceptable” to “Totally Acceptable,” with a few in-between rankings. Mine were absolute, so I won’t bother you with the middling possibilities. Since they won’t let me re-access the survey to get the questions exactly, let me try to remember them as best as possible.

Question 1: Is it acceptable for a church (as a chartering organization for a scout unit) to deny membership to homosexual scouts or leaders.

My answer: Totally Unacceptable.

Why: Those organizations blatantly discriminate against segments of the population and are therefore incompatible with the values that the Boy Scouts of America purports to support and encourage. In short, policies of discrimination are completely incompatible with scouting values.

Question 2: Is it acceptable for a homosexual boy to be allowed to join Boy Scouts? (I believe this was styled as a question that had the homosexual boy joining an organization where my son is a member.)

My answer: Totally Acceptable.

Why:  Why not? Why discriminate? The life lessons taught by the scouting program do not ever touch on sexuality. Instead, they focus on life skills, treating others with dignity and respect, and leadership. How would the presence of a homosexual boy alter or diminish those central tenets? It wouldn’t, except that it might benefit the other boys who are taught a valuable lesson about tolerance, acceptance, and diversity because of his presence.

Question 3: Suppose a church sponsors a scout unit. Suppose that church allows homosexuals. Suppose the pastor of the church is homosexual and also a scout leader. Is it OK for him to take scouts on trips and campouts, even if youth protection policies are followed?

My answer: Totally Acceptable.

Why: See the why for question 2. The same applies here. Additionally, the assertion that gay=pedophile is one of the most ignorant, bullshit arguments I’ve ever heard. Whomever created that lie should be (figuratively) fed into my wood chipper. Feet first.

There you go. My answers to the 3 questions posed to me in the survey. So, why am I bugged so much that I’d write a blog post about it?

The fact that they even need to ask these questions shows that the organization is still a deplorable not-for-profit (or not-blatantly-for-profit) group of deluded and unethical scum who have no loyalty to the core values of the program.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.

The Boy Scout Program is a wonderful and enriching one that helps boys to be better men.

The Boy Scout Organization is a disgusting business that disguises itself as a not-for-profit and angelic presence in our society while supporting discriminatory policies.

Oh, and while we’re at it, they should also drop their ban on atheists and agnostics. Want to know why?

They say that atheists and agnostics are also incompatible with scouting values.

Really?

I have a few questions for the Boy Scout Organization.

Have you read a few of the headlines about the Catholic Church and little boys? Their reaction to the same allegations? Their policies concerning employment of women. Their history in the area of human rights? Yet, it is perfectly fine to be a devoted follower of this church.

Have you ever read a fact-based (as opposed to biased) biography of Joseph Smith? Do so. Then tell me if he embodied scouting values. Trustworthy? Clean? I think not. Yet, the organization wholeheartedly embraces the followers of the stuff he translated from reformed Egyptian language written on gold plates through a seeing stone. Oh, in a hat. The plates were also in a hat. I forgot to mention that.

Have you ever really read some of the atrocities committed by “god” in the Old Testament? Do those, in any way, embody your values?

Just think about it. Think about all the horrible, disgusting things that have happened in the name of religion. Sure, there are good things, too, but doesn’t the same hold true for those who have no belief (or no established and embraced belief)  in god? Maybe you’ll realize that perhaps atheists and agnostics aren’t so darned bad after all. Think about reading about the American Humanist Society (with many, many atheists), which advocates doing good things for people, not because they want to buy eternal salvation or approval from some all-powerful entity in the sky, but just because it’s a decent thing to do.

I guess that’s the real problem here, isn’t it? I’d be asking you to do something decent, and that’s just a bridge too far for the Organization.

Keep dragging your feet fellas (especially those earning handsome not-for-profit salaries in Irving, TX. Maybe those pesky and evil atheist homosexuals will someday shut up, or so I’m sure you’re hoping.

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36 thoughts on “Hey Boy Scouts, I Have Your Survey Right Here

  1. Right on Sir. As a former scout, I feel that the organization’s behavior is shameful. At the point that I have children, if one of them is a son, he will not be participating in the scouts absent a policy shift that not only doesn’t discriminate against gay scouts and leaders, but openly advocates for their membership in the program.

    If that shift hasn’t been made, then I’ll be happy to find or found an alternate organization where only bigots will be excluded.

    1. Thank you. Your decision is, no doubt, a tough one.

      I, too, weighed the costs and benefits of having my boys affiliated with Boy Scouts. Ultimately, I chose the program, despite the organization. However, I completely understand and support those who choose to avoid membership in the organization because of the inscrutable practices.

  2. I’m writing an article about the survey for Addicting Info, and I’m sourcing your post as a parent who received the survey. Please contact me if you’d like to be tagged via Twitter. I’ll post the link here when the article is published.

  3. Many of those who have been involved in scouts our entire lives disagree with you. We don’t want an organization based on “tolerance” and “diversity”. We want an organization based on good values, that raises boys to be good men. We want men and women as leaders who exemplify the society we prefer, and who instill traditional values, not new-age hippie values.

    In order to maintain a society of people with any particular character, you need to exclude people who don’t exhibit that character. I would exclude from scouting anyone who espoused values that would erode that character. Homosexuals, as a group, would certainly do that. They would teach that gays should be able to marry, which is ridiculous. They would teach that boys should be allowed to ‘find’ their sexuality rather than be taught how to be a man. They would teach anti-masculinity, i.e., the notion that men being masculine, strong, aggressive, and powerful is evil and that feminine values of love, peace, and weakness are preferable. We disagree with all of these ideas.

    Furthermore, if you looked at statistics, you would know that gay men are overwhelmingly the greatest abusers of young boys. Yes, in the Catholic Church too (of which I’m not a member).

    Fundamentally, most adults in scouts are traditionalists and fairly conservative. We don’t want people in charge of our boys who will subvert this institution to teaching liberal values instead of conservative values. This has always been a conservative organization for teaching conservative values. Conservative men and women created it to teach those values. Values that support proper gender roles for children and adults. If you want to create the rainbow hippie scouts somewhere else, go ahead.

      1. You seem to want to _change_ the scouts into an organization that reflects _your_ values instead of mine, even though it was people like me who started and have maintained the boy scouts since its inception.

        What do you think gives you the right to come into an organization and completely change its values? To remake it in your image?

        You want an organization? Make one! You are perfectly free to do so, and I won’t even criticize it. But to try to destroy mine is malicious and selfish. You might as well go join a church because you like the social events, and then lobby to change its fundamental tenets.

      2. Derp! Derp! That’s two for you and your shallow gene pool.

        Show yourself, coward. How about a real name, real email, and scouting resume? Too bad you’re not man enough to stand behind your words.

        Oh, and it is not “_your_” program.

    1. Exactly. You are not alone in wanting to maintain traditional values in the boy scout organisation. Let the gays start thier own organisation. Why do they want to be a part of ours?

      1. Thank you for having the courage to stand by your views, non-anonymously.

        However, I’m sorry that you feel that excluding homosexuals is a traditional value, and I do not understand your reference of the boy scouts as “our” organization. It is not yours any more than it is mine.

  4. This is not simply about changing the Scouts (of which I was a member for many years). It’s about vigorously fighting discrimination on all fronts. If your fundamental tenets are rooted in intolerance and fear, I’m going to organize against you and, eventually, I’m going to win. I owe that to my sons and our daughters. It is my duty as a Christian and as a man.

    Your ideas about gay folks are laughable, antiquated, and ahistorical. I know you lust for practicing your bigotry out in the open and with institutional backing, but we’d prefer you take such perversions behind closed doors.

  5. I’d be interested to know where this idiot got his ‘statistics’. I won’t hold my breath.

    1. I’m not sure, but you might understand his perspective a bit better if you immerse yourself in past episodes of “Here Comes Honey Boo Boo” and “Buck Wild.” Though, be careful with “Buck Wild.” It may be a bit too cosmopolitan and worldly for him.

  6. Which are the traditional values and which are the new-age hippie values? From my observations of scouting and scouts, there’s not much hippie-dippie going on. I was not a scout and don’t plan on my children being scouts, largely for the civil religion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion#Sociology_of_religion] aspects of it I have observed — and definitely if they continue to discriminate.

    Your logic is circular at best and explicitly exclusionary without actually illustrating your point at worst. You write as though only gays would advocate for marriage equality, but most of the votes in the states where it exists have been made my heterosexual legislators and governors. I’m a gay man, and we’re not in charge; we have to rely on allies to help us out with things — otherwise marriage equality would already be the law.

    The values you cite about the scouts sound a lot more like the values of a standing army than an organization for children and teenagers. I had no idea that love was a feminine value inasmuch as a human value. “Help other people at all times” from the Scout’s Oath sounds a lot like love, which is very traditional value that many who are opposed to queerfolk (like certain Christians) say they hold dear because it’s important to their religions.

    One cannot be taught how to be a man. Plenty of research done in the last 60-70 years indicates over and over again that gender is a learned behavior in the context of varying societies. Peer-reviwed sociological studies. One need only look at how different indigenous peoples’ societal structures are set up to know that what is “manly” isn’t defined the same everywhere. What is “manly” also has nothing to do with sexual attraction. One can learn to care for others, but one doesn’t learn to be sexually attracted to people of the same sex anymore than heterosexuals decide to be attracted to members of then opposite sex.

    One actually need only look at the statistics [http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html] to know that gay men aren’t overwhelmingly the greatest abusers of young boys. The statistics and studies make clear that sexual assault and abuse — against men or women of any age — usually have very little to do with sex or sexuality inasmuch as having to do with power and being in control.

    Toward the end of your comment you get to your real point: you’ve created (or experienced) the scouts how you’ve wanted to. That’s fine. However, I’d argue that there is a huge difference between “scouting values” and “conservative values.” The BSA’s website on Scouting’s Values [http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TheBuildingBlocksofScouting/values.aspx] doesn’t really have anything that’s “conservative” or “liberal” — just being a decent human being. Nowhere on that website do I see anything about gender roles or sexuality. If anything, I think Scout law calls for Boy Scouts to prevent themselves from making Eagle based on the no gay parts right now.

    A scout is trustworthy and that means being honest. Being honest means being real with those around you about if you’re not straight — because it impacts your life in a lot of ways. Yet for being trustworthy and honest scouts are removed. That seems like a contradiction of values to me.

    1. Being honest is indeed a trait worthy of respect; however, that does not mean I necessarily want you in the boy scouts. A boy may be honest about having committed a crime, or be honest about despising the United States, etc. Honesty reveals undesirable traits as well as desirable ones.

      From what I have seen, your statistical information is incorrect. Boys are abused much more by men than by women, and that is by definition homosexual. To say a man sexually abusing a boy is not homosexual because “it’s about power” is absurd. It’s about a sexual perversion that causes the abuser to desire children. See NAMBLA.

      Yes, my view is exclusionary, and yes, the scouts have been a bastion of conservative values for many years. This is because it’s an organization in which traditional families and their values are prominent. They want an organization that comports with their values, and teaches their sons those values, in an environment free of liberal propaganda.

      The scouts teach to revere our flag, to be courteous, clean, brave, etc. These values are generally not on display in the gay communities I have seen, nor in the gay parades I’ve seen, nor in left-wing circles which generally are allies with the gay propaganda push of recent years. Instead, ever since Vietnam, I’ve seen that entire side of the political spectrum attempt to shatter traditional values and traditional societal norms. But these are the very norms that I and many others want to maintain in our lives and in the Boy Scouts.

      As I suggested before, you wouldn’t likely join a church for fun and socializing, then attempt to change their tenets. That is destructive to that church community. It’s destructive to their values.

      It is telling how many of you have denigrated me as an idiot, posting mere ad hominem attacks rather than sentient responses, even though you can plainly see from my writing that I am no idiot. I challenge you to at least take what I write at face value and consider it, using your brains.

      The fact is that not every community, not every group is going to be for homosexuals. Not every group is for men. Not every group is for women. And honestly, I can’t see how you can disagree with the proposition that we should have the right to freely associate with those who we prefer, and exclude from our circles those who exhibit qualities, practices, or preferences with which we disagree.

      1. Anon:

        I’ve chosen to publish your anonymous statements here for the sake of presenting an opposing view. This is the last time I will do so. From this point forward, you must reveal the following:

        1. Name.
        2. Use a legit email.
        3. Explain for all of us your scouting and professional resume’.

        Why? I want to see you display courage. This is the courage to be known, like Joseph Mathews, and attach your name to what you say. My identity is also known. Why cower in the shadows?

        A Scout is Brave.

        So, avoiding ad hominem (yet fun and amusing) attacks, here we go.

        I agree, honesty is a trait worth respect. Sometimes. You are honest that you want the BSA to be exclusionary. You are also honest that you want your values to be imparted on the organization, and you are clearly controlled by views that are decidedly bigoted in nature. That is not worthy of respect. Honesty has revealed that your traits are decidedly and completely undesirable, especially when judged by the values of the Scouting program.

        Men who abuse little boys are pedophiles. You say this is homosexual, by definition. Men who abuse little girls are also pedophiles. So, I guess that would be heterosexual, by definition. Or, perhaps this isn’t about orientation, but more about whether someone abuses children. There’s a big difference.

        A man can be attracted to a woman without wanting to abuse little girls, just as a man can be attracted to a man without wanting to abuse little boys. Homosexuality does not equal pedophilia.

        You’re really hung up on this liberal vs. conservative thing. This isn’t about that. It is about being inclusive, accepting, and tolerant. That’s not liberal, but mere decency and kindness.

        I doubt that you’ve actually made an effort to know and understand “gay communities.” It seems clear that you equate them all with the Folsom Street Fair (which is actually geared to the fetish/BDSM communities, many of whom are heterosexual). That’s just very, very wrong. It is the equivalent of someone judging the heterosexual community based on the inventory of an adult bookstore. The Folsom Street Fair is not representative of the “gay community” just as those who adhere to the values of “50 Shades of Gray” are not representative of the heterosexual community.

        I don’t think you are an idiot because of your writing. In fact, your writing is grammatically commendable. However, your values are not, and they are not consistent with the Scout Law. I think you realize this because you write your comments in anonymity, with an anonymous email, and from behind a proxy server. That’s just cowardly. There’s no other way to characterize it. To be honest, I pity you for this.

        If you stand behind your views, openly, like Joseph Matthews, I’ll be happy to continue posting your comments. Until that time, I’m afraid you will no longer be allowed to comment here, and I have no choice by to assume you are trolling.

    2. Joseph: Thank you for the very thoughtful reply. Most people in Scouting are not like anon, and I am decidedly thankful for that.

  7. BRAVO!!! About time someone wrote something, anything about the Boy Scouts.
    Too bad they can’t be taken over by the Girl Scouts, who are so over all this stuff.
    One good thing though about the US Scouting movement, it’s not coed as it is here in Australia. Sometimes it’s just best not to remember how we live in the US.
    Anyway, good for you.

  8. (Editor’s Note: Not published because Anon is unwilling to stand up and be accountable for his own views (unlike those of us who are advocating for the homosexual minority). However, he did liken himself to the “many of our founding fathers” who were also anonymous. I don’t know of these “anonymous founding fathers,” perhaps because they were anonymous, but I do know about the ones who signed the Declaration of Independence, especially that Herbie Hancock guy. Anon also continues to refuse to, at a minimum, cite his scouting and/or professional credentials.)

  9. I was a scout in one form or another since I was could be a tiger cub until I received my Eagle and turned 18. I worked at a scouting camp for two summers in high school. As an adult, I’ve also been a Tiger, Wolf, and Webelos I den leader in addition to Assistant Cubmaster for a year then Cubmaster for 2 years. I’ve had 3 boys involved in cubscouting one receiving his Arrow of Light and the other two obtaining the highest ranks they could obtain based on the typical progression through the ranks for their age/grade. Overall, I think I would have been nearly the perfect model for scouting. Until last year.

    Last year I had an epiphany that despite agreeing with many of the fundamentals of scouting, I just could not continue to support, either monetarily or volunteering leadership, in such an organization that has such policies towards sexual orientation or religious beliefs.

    As the leader of the pack, I knew first hand of declining membership and it being more and more difficult to recruit new scouts as well as retain existing ones. Every year it was like pulling teeth to get new leadership. To actively turn away what otherwise would be qualified and interested individuals due to beliefs that have ZERO relevance within scouting is silly.

    As a result in my decision to leave scouting, and explaining it to my wife and kids, the BSA lost 3 active kids. I gave all three boys the opportunity to continue with scouting if they desired, and that it was their choice. All 3 decided not to continue. The pack also lost their scoutmaster, and no parent decided to step up and take the reigns, so the pack folded. I don’t know the fate of the other scouts whether they went to other troops, but I imagine that many of them discontinued scouting. The troop that met at the same church also lost their natural source of new scouts graduating Cub Scouts. At times I’ve felt bad about the ultimate ripple effect my decision made, but I also feel that if you don’t stand up for what you believe in, then what good is believing in it.

    1. The organization has left many, like you with strong values and a regard for the worth of others, with a hard choice. Is there a right answer? No.

      I choose to remain a leader, but I know and sympathize with others who simply can’t continue to support the organization. I don’t mind giving of my time to directly benefit the kids, but I’ve abstained from donating to the organization because of their policies.

  10. A couple of comments to anon and to Eric. I’ll start with Eric because he’s a respectable human being with respectable world views.

    1. The complete survey is now available here:

    http://www.dallasvoice.com/exclusive-boy-scouts-surveys-members-gay-ban-10141621.html

    2. I agree with your post whole-heartedly. I would note that they do not even yet feel the need to ask similar questions about atheists. Atheists are only just beginning to follow the fine example of the LBGT community in demanding civil rights and liberties.

    3. We should never be voting on civil rights. A democracy has two main features, majority rule (preferably one person one vote, which we do not have in the U.S.), and protection of the minority from the majority. The latter is often forgotten, as it has been by Scouts of America.

    To anon,

    Did you really say “new-age hippie values”? Are you f___ing kidding me??!!? I’m going to assume that you believe in some flavor of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion, deliberately singular, since your organization requires belief in some imaginary deity or deities and your rants sound very Judeo-Christian-Islamic in nature.

    I’m an atheist and I seem to know more about Y’shua ben Yosef (Jesus Christ) than you do. By most popular accounts, Jesus was a progressive liberal commie pinko long-haired hippie freak. I’ve got more in common with him than you do. Traditional values? He hung around with 12 other men and a prostitute roaming the country-side turning water into wine and doing god-knows-what.*

    Traditional values my aunt Fannie.

    Yes, your bible prohibits homosexuality. It also prohibits work on the sabbath (punishable by death), wearing a mix of wool and linen, and touching a pig (e.g. a football) on the sabbath.

    BTW, you actually said, ” They would teach that gays should be able to marry, which is ridiculous.”

    A) Do scout leaders now discuss heterosexual marriage? Is there a merit badge for practice? Perhaps girl scouts and boy scouts could work on this together. If this is not the case, why do you think that homosexual marriage would be discussed?

    B) What is so ridiculous about same sex marriage? My wife and I are married despite my vasectomy preventing any reproduction. Old people can marry though they can no longer reproduce and raise children together. Why do you oppose marrying the one you love? Do you think that heterosexual marriages always work so well? Some very famous ones seem to last for mere hours.

    So you say that same sex marriage is ridiculous and expect to be able to leave it at that? Explain your points.

    Oh, and come out of the closet already. Pick a name, even if not your real one, and use a valid email address.

    * Well, OK, we know a bit. He helped the poor and healed the sick without any mention of checking for citizenship papers or health insurance. But, that’s a different topic.

    P.S. Eric, if my use of f___ing offends you, please feel free to delete that word. If you are not offended by the actual word, feel free to fill in the missing letters.

    P.P.S. Keep up the good fight.

    1. Scott:

      Anon knows what he knows because…..well…..he knows it. There’s no changing his views, regardless statistics or logic. He’s done here.

      Atheists, unfortunately, have not united in the same way that the LGBT community has. While there have been some victories, there is a definite lack of unity. Though, if I’m not mistaken, their overall population is greater than that of LGBT.

      I was (and still am) proud to be an advocate and supporter of homosexuals in the military. This was strengthened when I represented many who suffered at the hands of Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell. I have no problem supporting inclusion in the military and Scouts. Why? Because I believe their inclusion is the right thing to do, the decent thing to do, the kind thing to do, and something that would strengthen the program and the boys as they become men.

      I remember being surprised to see that most of my acquaintances in the military (many different ranks) supported the lifting of the ban (before it was lifted). Most didn’t understand what the big deal was. For most people I encounter in Scouts, the sentiment is the same.

      However, don’t ever let me catch you mixing wool and linen. I’ll go fucking crazy.

      1. Eric,

        It’s nice to know that you and I have the same policy regarding cursing. Sometimes it just gets an emotional point across.

        The problem with uniting atheists is that we don’t share the same beliefs about anything. All we’ve got as a group is a shared non-belief. Or, perhaps we could say that we share a belief in the importance of evidence. But, that’s as far as it goes. There’s not much of a uniting ideology. Or more accurately, there’s no ideology at all. There’s no common thread uniting atheists.

        Though, as the religiose in society seek to increase the theocratic nature of our once great, once secular non-nation, the common thread becomes opposing the tyranny.

        This is probably a thread we need to nurture and to rally around for all causes where religion seeks to overwhelm our proud heritage as the first constitutionally secular country in the world. This should unite all who support women’s rights, LBGT rights, the rights of children to a decent science education so that they can compete in an increasingly technical world, the right to freedom from as well as freedom of religion (for one cannot exist without the other), and many other areas where religion seeks to impose itself on the non-religious.

        I would go so far as to say that this very vocal and powerful minority needs to be fought by the majority of us who are sane at every possible turn.

        Remember, Jefferson’s “Wall of Separation” letter, as I’m sure you know, was written to assure Christians (the Danbury Baptists) that they would have the right to practice Christianity in their way without being forced into other sects of Christianity. This is important.

        The wall of separation was intended to protect Christians from Christians.

        Today, we all need protecting from the most vocal, persistent, and pernicious Christians. Atheists, agnostics, other Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Wiccans, Scientologists and whatever other religious sects we have in this country all need to band together to protect our rights from the misguided who do not even realize what might happen if their own particular sect is not the one chosen when we become a theocracy.

        It doesn’t surprise me a bit to hear that most people in the military and in the scouts agree. What surprises me is that most people are still being quiet about this slow, or not even that slow, and steady coup d’etat. that is going on around us.

        “Fools”, said I, “You do not know
        Silence like a cancer grows
        ….

    2. “Yes, your bible prohibits homosexuality.”

      Leviticus 18:22

      ואת זכר לא תשכב משכבי אשה תועבה הִוא
      V’et-zachar lo tishkav mishk’vei ishah to’evah hu.

      Massively erroneously translated as the following:

      “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (KJV)”

      When in reality it is:
      “And with a male, thou shalt not lie down in a woman’s bed; it is an abomination. ”

      “This is the correct translation of Leviticus 18:22. It can be seen that, rather than forbidding male homosexuality, it simply forbids two males to lie down in a woman’s bed, for whatever reason. Culturally, a woman’s bed was her own. Other than the woman herself, only her husband was permitted in her bed, and there were even restrictions on when he was allowed in there. Any other use of her bed would have been considered defilement. Other verses in the Law will help clarify the acceptable use of the woman’s bed (Lev. 15).”

      1. What if the two males are staying at a relatively posh hotel, and the owner of said hotel is a woman? Is it still defilement if they choose the premium king room with a flat panel TV and eco-friendly towel service? Must they choose the deluxe double with a calming view of the courtyard?

        It matters, you know.

  11. I looked at the survey and it seems to miss the point on a lot of levels. You can stereotype/profile/exclude as much as you want and attempt to alter an organization as much as you want, you’ll just fire people up and may garner no appreciable result other than getting people to hate you. The simple and sad truth is that you often don’t know who you can’t trust until it is too late. My view is that actual parental participation and involvement at the kid level is the best way to reduce the opportunities for opportunistic people to abuse trust and do bad things with/to your kids. It also allows you to provide a counterpoint/context to any teaching you disagree with.

    Here’s my revised one-question survey, and you don’t even have to submit it anywhere, you just need to think about your answer.

    Question 1: Do you think it is appropriate or safe to outsource the supervision and training of your minor son — with virtually no participation or active involvement from you — to an organization or to some other person who is not his parent?

    End of survey.

    Credentials: Father of two small boys (too young for scouting); former mediocre cub scout; and person who despises pedophiles.

    1. Having been a Cub Scout and Boy Scout leader at all levels, as well as a little league coach (various sports) for all ages through middle school, I’ve never ceased to be amazed at the parents who are content to drop their kid off at a meeting/practice. Some appeared to barely stop long enough for poor Junior to exit the car safely. Yet, when they are unhappy about playing time or not letting Junior play shortstop, they waste no time giving me the business.

      My father was a constant presence throughout my childhood, so I give my kids the only thing I know to give, which is the same.

      Sadly for many of these kids, us coaches and leaders are the best (only) adult mentors they have. This makes it vitally important that such programs live the ideals they purport to teach.

    2. “Question 1: Do you think it is appropriate or safe to outsource the supervision and training of your minor son — with virtually no participation or active involvement from you — to an organization or to some other person who is not his parent?”

      Doesn’t almost every parent do this every day with school teachers? I’m active in their education, but every day I send my 3 kids off with a stranger when they ride the bus then spend probably more direct contact time with a “stranger” during the day than I can in the evenings.

      A parent can’t coddle their kids and make them live in an isolated bubble. They can’t (or shouldn’t) be looming over their kids 24/7. I always encouraged parents to actively participate and help out when I was a leader, but they were not required to attend the whole meeting except for Tiger cubs (1st graders). Leaders were suppose to always have two deep coverage so that no leader is alone with a scout. It doesn’t eliminate the chances that inappropriate contact, but it helps add an additional level of protection for both the leaders and the child.

      Regardless though if BSA stands for Boy Scouts of America or gets used as Baby Sitters of America, this isn’t really relevant to sexual orientation, the subject of the survey. Being LGBT doesn’t make you automatically unfit to be a leader, or untrustworthy to supervise kids for an hour a week or over a weekend. Minors that are around LGBT individuals aren’t going to be infected with gay germs that are going to turn them gay. Kids can be as risk to exposure to a pedophile regardless if the person is straight or gay. The problem in those cases is not their sexual orientation, rather that the person is a pedophile.

      1. That’s a great point. Completely valid.

        In JMo’s defense, I think he was illustrating that many of the people who are complaining about the inclusion of homosexuals are absentee parents and outsourcing the raising of their children–involving themselves now because of their hatred toward people who are different.

        To that extent, I agree and note that all parents should be involved and aware of their child’s development, regardless of the personal/professional resume’ of the teacher/leader/mentor.

  12. Eric, sadly you are the bigot… Why not start your own organization? It’s not discrimination when someone doesn’t share your views. It IS intolerance when YOU cannot respect theirs.

    Anonymous posters are fine- what do you have to fear? Why is it trolling when you don’t like their anonymity?

    1. OK, let’s follow this logic.

      1. I criticize those who want to exclude LGBT from Scouting, an organization that purports to uphold high ideals.

      2. My criticism of those who support exclusion of a class of people makes me a bigot.

      Cool story, bro. There’s no need for me to start my “own organization” as long as Scouting lives-up to the Scout Oath and Law.

      Anonymous posters may be fine on your blog, but not mine. My house, my rules. I avail myself, so others must do likewise.

      1. This may just be me, but I don’t mind being called “intolerant” for my refusal to acquiesce to prejudice and ignorance. They’re just not acceptable, and I refuse to give such views any credence. As for anon commenters, it makes me personally happy that the folks who back prejudice and ignorance do so from under rocks. It just seems right.

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